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Post by Gregory Hewett on Sept 21, 2007 10:28:30 GMT 5.5
September 20, 2007
Voices Rise in Egypt to Shield Girls From an Old Tradition By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
KAFR AL MANSHI ABOU HAMAR, Egypt — The men in this poor farming community were seething. A 13-year-old girl was brought to a doctor’s office to have her clitoris removed, a surgery considered necessary here to preserve chastity and honor.
The girl died, but that was not the source of the outrage. After her death, the government shut down the clinic, and that got everyone stirred up.
“They will not stop us,” shouted Saad Yehia, a tea shop owner along the main street. “We support circumcision!” he shouted over and over.
“Even if the state doesn’t like it, we will circumcise the girls,” shouted Fahmy Ezzeddin Shaweesh, an elder in the village.
Circumcision, as supporters call it, or female genital mutilation, as opponents refer to it, was suddenly a ferocious focus of debate in Egypt this summer. A nationwide campaign to stop the practice has become one of the most powerful social movements in Egypt in decades, uniting an unlikely alliance of government forces, official religious leaders and street-level activists.
Though Egypt’s Health Ministry ordered an end to the practice in 1996, it allowed exceptions in cases of emergency, a loophole critics describe as so wide that it effectively rendered the ban meaningless. But now the government is trying to force a comprehensive ban.
Not only was it unusual for the government to shut down the clinic, but the health minister has also issued a decree banning health care workers— or anyone — from conducting the procedure for any reason. Beyond that, the Ministry of Religious Affairs also issued a booklet explaining why the practice was not called for in Islam; Egypt’s grand mufti, Ali Gomaa, declared it haram, or prohibited by Islam; Egypt’s highest religious official, Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, called it harmful; television advertisements have been shown on state channels to discourage it; and a national hot line was set up to answer the public’s questions about genital cutting.
But as the men in this village demonstrated, widespread social change in Egypt comes slowly, very slowly. This country is conservative, religious and, for many, guided largely by traditions, even when those traditions do not adhere to the tenets of their faith, be it Christianity or Islam.
For centuries Egyptian girls, usually between the ages of 7 and 13, have been taken to have the procedure done, sometimes by a doctor, sometimes by a barber or whoever else in the village would do it. As recently as 2005, a government health survey showed that 96 percent of the thousands of married, divorced or widowed women interviewed said they had undergone the procedure — a figure that astounds even many Egyptians. In the language of the survey, “The practice of female circumcision is virtually universal among women of reproductive age in Egypt.”
Though the practice is common and increasingly contentious throughout sub-Saharan Africa, among Arab states the only other place where this practice is customary is in southern Yemen, experts here said. In Saudi Arabia, where women cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot hold most jobs, the practice is viewed as abhorrent, a reflection of pre-Islamic traditions.
But now, quite suddenly, forces opposing genital cutting in Egypt are pressing back as never before. More than a century after the first efforts to curb this custom, the movement has broken through one of the main barriers to change: It is no longer considered taboo to discuss it in public. That shift seems to have coincided with a small but growing acceptance of talking about human sexuality on television and radio.
For the first time, opponents said, television news shows and newspapers have aggressively reported details of botched operations. This summer two young girls died, and it was front-page news in Al Masry al Yom, an independent and popular daily. Activists highlighted the deaths with public demonstrations, which generated even more coverage.
The force behind this unlikely collaboration between government, nongovernment organizations, religious leaders and the news media is a no-nonsense 84-year-old anthropologist named Marie Assaad, who has been fighting against genital cutting since the 1950s.
“I never thought I would live to see this day,” she said, reading about the subject in a widely circulated daily newspaper.
Dr. Nasr el-Sayyid, assistant to the minister of health, said there had already been a drop in urban areas, along with an aggressive effort in more than 100 villages, mostly in the south, to curb the practice. “Our plan and program over the next two years is aiming to take it down 20 percent nationwide,” he said.
The challenge, however, rests in persuading people that their grandparents, parents and they themselves have harmed their daughters. Moreover, advocates must convince a skeptical public that men will marry a woman who has not undergone the procedure and that circumcision is not necessary to preserve family honor. It is a challenge to get men to give up some of their control over women.
And it will be a challenge to convince influential people like Osama Mohamed el-Moaseri, imam of a mosque in Basyoun, the city near where the 13-year-old girl lived, and died. “This practice has been passed down generation after generation, so it is natural that every person circumcises his daughter,” he said. “When Ali Gomaa says it is haram, he is criticizing the practice of our fathers and forefathers.”
But the movement against genital cutting has matured and is increasingly prepared for these arguments. At first, Ms. Assaad and a group of intellectuals who together created a task force simply lectured their neighbors, essentially calling the practice barbaric.
“At the beginning we preached and said this is wrong,” she recalled. “It didn’t work. They said, ‘It was done to our mothers and grandmothers, and they are fine.’ ”
She and her colleagues sounded like out-of-touch urban intellectuals, she said. But over time, they enlisted the aid of Islamic scholars and health care workers, hoping to disperse misconceptions — like the idea that cutting off the clitoris prevents homosexuality — and relate to people’s lives.
“Circumcision is a very old custom and has absolutely no benefits,” Vivian Fouad, who helps staff the national hot line, said to a caller wondering what to do with her own daughter. She continued: “If you want to protect your daughter, then you have to raise her well. How you raise your child is the main factor in everything, not mutilating your daughter.”
Egypt is a patriarchal society, but women can be a powerful force. So Ms. Assaad helped persuade two important women, elite and privileged, who like herself could not believe the practice was as widespread as it was, to join her battle.
The first was Suzanne Mubarak, the wife of President Hosni Mubarak and a political force in her own right. The second was an ally of Mrs. Mubarak, Mosheira Khattab, head of the National Council for Childhood and Motherhood, a government agency that helps set national health and social policies.
Mrs. Khattab has become a force in pressing the agenda. Her council now has a full-time staff working on the issue and runs the hot line. She toured the Nile Delta region, three cities in one day, promoting the message, blunt and outraged that genital cutting had not stopped.
“The Koran is a newcomer to tradition in this manner,” she said. “As a male society, the men took parts of religion that satisfied men and inflated it. The parts of the Koran that helped women, they ignored.”
It is an unusual swipe at the Islamists who have promoted the practice as in keeping with religion, especially since the government generally tries to avoid taking on conservative religious leaders. It tries to position itself as the guardian of Islamic values, aiming to enhance its own wilted legitimacy and undercut support for the Muslim Brotherhood, the banned but popular opposition movement.
But the religious discourse concerning genital cutting has changed, and that is credited to Ms. Assaad’s strategy of reaching up to people like Mrs. Mubarak and out to young women like Fatma Ibrahim, 24. When Ms. Ibrahim was 11 years old, she said, her parents told her she was going for a blood test. The doctor, a relative, put her to sleep and when she woke, she said she could not walk.
The memory haunts her now, and though she says that her parents “will kill” her if they find out, she has become a volunteer in the movement against genital cutting, hoping to spare other women what she endured.
“I am looking to talk to the young, the ones who will be parents in 10 years,” she said. “This is my target group. I talk to the young. When I get married, inshallah, I will never, ever circumcise my daughter.”
Mona el-Naggar contributed reporting from Cairo.
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Post by rikke on Sept 22, 2007 15:07:54 GMT 5.5
My opinion to this current event is that I think it was good that some of them decided to stop it, and I think what the woman Ms. Assaad did was really good, and I think she was on the best side. I don’t get why some of the woman can stand for there right, and why the men had so much control over the woman, and why circumcision was and are a tradition, but I think it is stupid, and it shouldn’t be like that, and the woman shouldn’t think that it’s normal because they got use to it, so I think they should listen to Ms. Assaad, because she has something really important to day to the woman, and of course I went down, more people listened to the government, but still there are many I believe there still does it. And on the first page of the current event, the tells us that girls between 7- 13 get it done, and they get it done by sometimes a doctor, other times by a barbar, and other times even from whoever there are in the village there wanted to do it, so it’s not even a doctor all the time, there kind off know how to do it, that’s even worst.
A brief summery of this event is, it starts with it tells that a 13 year old girl died after a doctor cut her clitoris, and afterwards they say the are closing it down, and then a man from the other side of the street says that they will support circumcision. The government now tries to stop it, because they sees that it is wrong, and that it isn’t good for the woman, so the government talks with the health minister, and also the highest religious office, because circumcision is a religions thing. And in the event the try to stop it, and tells some different situations, and they also tells that it change bit by bit, and more and more listen to them, and stop it for the next generation, that is basically it about this event, but it’s not a really nice topic because it is hard for them, and a problem if you look at the women side, some of them just didn’t want to admit it, but the government, and the other people help them to stop it, or stop some of it.
It is not only in Egypt this happened, , so it is not only Egypt there have that problem, there are many there have it in Asia, maybe some more than others, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is not good for there health either, and I think it’s a sad situation specially for the woman, I’m sure many of the men doesn’t care.
Questions Why didn’t the woman believe in them self? Why didn’t they give there own right? Why did they let the men take over? That is not how women should be, women should be strong. Will these stop all the Muslim’s from doing it? Will it not be in there religion anymore?
What there will happened next I think and hope for the woman, that they will think more about it, and stand again for the men, and not let them control everything, even though it is better now, but not let the men send the girls to the doctor, or anything like that to let them cut of the clitoris, I hope that will not happened. And hopefully it will help the women a lot, because they are the once there care, and should care. Many of the men don’t care at all, like they should, so I hope they will stop it more than they already have done.
To connect another country with it, it could be India, but it’s not as many as there, but still some places, and some families does it her also.
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Post by yeeun on Sept 22, 2007 20:47:35 GMT 5.5
:-XThis article is about a 13 years old girl’s death by female circumcision in Egypt. Since the girl’s death, the hospital, where she had a surgery, was closed by the Egyptian government. According to this article, about 96 percentages of the Egyptian women are circumcised. In addition, not only men, but women encourage this horrible surgery, and some women were divorced because of this circumcision.
, the government has tried to ban it and make people to understand the seriousness of the surgery. But people did not listen to the government whether the government said it was wrong or right. The number of circumcision has just increased more.
So currently, the government came up with other broad solution for this terrible surgery. The government advertised the wrongness on popular TV shows and radios. Further, they printed the 13 years old girl’s death on the first page of news papers. ?The new solution was really an unusual way because sexuality has not been mentioned like that expressed before in Egypt, because of the religions. Anyway, today’s some Egyptian women are trying to block this terrible surgery or tradition to not inherit to the other young daughters. And they do not want more victims anymore.
The reason this event is a serious problem especially in the developing nations is because it is actually one example of inequality of sex. As this article had explained, men ignore the parts, which are for women’s right, in Koran. Further, they just use women as their entertainment, and actually, circumcision is done for men not for Allah. I think the Egyptian men’s explaining the reason of circumcision as women’s purity is a really ridiculous excuse. In addition, I think this shocking excuse is why women encourage circumcision.
At first, I could not understand why the mothers and grandmothers have made their daughters to get through this horrible surgery. But later, I could understand why. I think it is because of humiliation. As a woman, though they can pregnant, they just became a baby-making machine by circumcision. In addition, I think the reason they have done the surgery to their daughters is because they thought it was the only way to avoid the humiliation, of becoming a baby making machine. So I think they just accepted it so it could be looked natural as a real tradition. But actually, it is not okay and natural.
Today, most of mothers in Egypt do this surgery to their daughters and say their daughters cannot feel and remember anything. But I am sure about they remember the surgery as the most horrible experience in their life. ?Without any narcotic and blood all over the floor.
So I think what the government really needs to do to stop this surgery is taking the women’s humiliation away from them. Nothing will be able to stop this horrific surgery unless the women, themselves get out from the long-time humiliation. So I think, rather than advertising the surgery badly, the government actually needs to make a place for the women. So they can actually talk about it together honestly. Further, the government should care about the health of women because they usually do this surgery from a barber, a cheaper way.
Anyway, as a woman, I was so angry and sad about the inequality between men and women. Further, I think the reason this article shows up currently is now some women started having their own power and right, in developing nations. But this article reminded me of the women under violence of their husband, and I thought again about how I am lucky.
And while I was reading this article, i suddently remembered the fish-project. By the way, um,, it is one of my suggestion. How about making a posters or campaigns for such women under violence or circumcision. I do not have a specific suggestion yet, but i think we will be able to come up with a good one for women's right. "Let's find and give the women's right back to the women!"
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Post by divya on Sept 22, 2007 22:08:34 GMT 5.5
This topic is a taboo and people are hesitant to address the topic. But it is a serious issue in our world today. The UN created a Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in the GA's resolution in Article 5 it states-
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
This is a rule that everyone should abide by and country's should enfore this policy. But by allowing this to happen, Egypt is not following this and it is the right thing for them to do in their efforts to stop this practice without at loopholes.
Women's rights are important in any society and should be valued because they also contribute to the community. Though they give birth and have the ability to carry a child that does not mean that that is the only reason they are here on earth. Their roles can differ and many play an important part. Giving birth is actually a beautiful process. Nowadays, many make jokes and make it into more of a physical ordeal but it is also a mental enjoyment too. One is accepting the other with something that they do not give to just anybody and though sex was considered more sacred in the past, it still can be today. By taking away a part of the girl's reproductive system, it robs her of that pleasure which is not exactly a bad thing if you have sex at an appropriate, responsibily with the one you love. By taking away the organ or part of her that lets her enjoy sex, that essentially takes away her womanhood and there is nothing special about being a female.
Another argument you can make is that women should be treated equally in society and if the society accepts the custom to undergo this procedure, then the men should be forced to also. They cannot just control women, telling them what to do and that they have to be pure before entering a marriage. The men also must follow these rules because everyone should be equal and if the girl cannot enjoy, why can the man get the full benefit out of it? It is unfair to women and if they undergo the physcial pain then men should also.
But even after saying all that, I can understand the point of view that is carried out by most families because it decreases sexual temptations and therefore there is no incentive for women to engage in sexual activity. If this is their tradition, I think it also belongs to their culture and if they feel strongly enough about it they should carry it out. Many may think I am crazy but honestly if you think about it from their view, it makes some sense. If you do this process to the girl as an infant, she will not remember or feel anything later. Though it affects her for the rest of her life, girls in that community do not know what that feeling is like so they are not deprived on anything really. Aside from the infections and all in earlier days, point of view becasue it protects her child and prevents her from rebelling or making hasty decisions. If you look at a custom in a country such as India and their belief on arranged marriages, many may disagree with this practice. But in India, the people accept it still even today because that is what they have known and it makes sense to find a man that your family accepts and you spend your whole life getting to know him. It has less of a divorce rate and many think of it as primitive but in a way it also makes some sense.
I obviously don't think that it should be done to innocent girls because I think that a girl should enjoy her love life but I can kind of understand a mother's point of view, supporting circumsision. Overall, older girls who are at an age where they can remember should never ever be forced to do something like this and women all over the world should have a choice about whether or not to undergo the procedure. When one becomes a nun, they choose their way of life and decide to become chaste for the rest of their life. Similarly, girls should have the same choice about their own body and they should make this issue widely known like AIDS or HIV which used to be a taboo but now is not, due to the amount it is advertised and prevented.
Female circumsision is cruel to some people and natural to others. Hopefully parents in Islamic culture can find other ways to prevent their girls from engaging in early sexual activites by restrain instead of physically doing something to their body. But there are really two sides to it and to some it is a way of life. It is hard to choose a side for sure though i am leaning towards being against female circumsision. I hope this problem can be solved in teh future.
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Post by jayanth23 on Sept 23, 2007 0:28:25 GMT 5.5
This article made me realize that woman's rights still remains an issue today. On the outside the world thinks that woman are of an equal status to men. But that is not the case in many developing/ underdeveloped countries.
Woman still don't have a voice in society in these countries. They cant fight for their opinions or social evils. One of these social evils is female circumcision. This practice has been embedded in Egyptian culture and has been going on for centuries. I was surprised to hear that 96% of the woman in Egypt have been circumcised. The woman in Egypt take has part of Islam and don't complain about it.
The people in Egypt have made it almost a necessary part of life and want their children and grandchildren to have it done to. They are not considering how the child is feeling, which is completely unfair. The girl described in the article, Do you think she really wanted to do it?
Due to the modern changes in the world it has influenced many people (woman) to fight against the social evil. Suddenly some of the elite woman have taken a stand which will certainly lead many others to follow.
Female circumcision is defiantly a major problem that faces the world today. I cant really understand how female circumcision came about or how it stuck to Egypt's culture. Whatever the reason was it was a bad idea. I think that female circumcision will be reduced drastically in next five years. But never do I reckon that it will be destroyed.
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Post by sohee on Sept 23, 2007 8:51:45 GMT 5.5
This current event is about the female mutilation in Egypt. In Egypt, most of girls and women are circumcise to preserve chastity and honor. Most of Egyptians even the men says they will circumcise the girls even the state does not like it. Like this, many Egyptians think Egyptian girls, usually between the ages of 7 and 13, need to circumcise. But because of girls¡¯ and women¡¯s circumcision brought the divorce between a man and a woman.
But not all the Egyptians do agree with circumcision. Vivan Fouad said ¡°There is no benefits at circumcision although it is a very old custom. Many of Egyptians think their daughter need a circumcision to protect them, but if you really want to protect your daughter, you have to raise her well.¡± And I highly agree with her because I do not think the circumcision help girls and women at all.
The thing that made me shock was these problems happened only because it is one of Egypt¡¯s culture. These days, the highest culture official is becoming a serious problem. For example, in Saudi Arabia, the women cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot hold most jobs, the practice is viewed as abhorrent; a reflection of pre-Islamic traditions and it makes serious problems in the world.
When I was reading this current event, I was shocked because I cannot even imagine that girls and women circumcise only because of their highest religious official. Before I read this current event, I thought sometimes we have to believe our religion but after I read this current event, I thought to believe own religion really highly also makes a lot of problems.
Then, here are my questions. First, why do not the most of boys and men circumcise? Second, does it happen only in Egypt? Third, why do not the government bring with more powerful solution if the Egyptians still do the circumcision to girls and women although they shut down the clinic and banned health care workers or anyone from conducting the procedure for any reason? Are they tired of stop the Egyptians?
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Post by yulli on Sept 23, 2007 14:17:45 GMT 5.5
First of all, like many other people, I felt uncomfortable when I had to discuss about this current event with my friends. Obviously this kind of subject would not be talked about freely even with family members. When I was watching the interview of Egyptian women in the class, I simply couldn¡¯t understand the point of female circumcision at all. I¡¯ve heard that it is being practiced in a lot of African countries and countries in the Middle East; however, I didn¡¯t know what female circumcision exactly was. Now, I came to know why mothers try to circumcise their girls. I do not agree with circumcising young girls because I think that girls should not be tortured like that and most of them will remember what had happened to them when they grow up. The female circumcision can be a burden for those innocent girls later on. Though I have no right to criticize a North African culture, I strongly think that girls don¡¯t need circumcision in any ways.
This current event is basically about female genital mutilation, or female circumcision in Egypt. It is one of their traditions in Egypt and also in many other African countries. People in Egypt got mad because the government banned the clinic which has been circumcising girls after a death of 13-year old girl. Practically, many Egyptian people think that girls must be circumcised because in that way they can only preserve chastity and honor. Thus, 90 percent of women undergo the procedure and do exactly the same to their daughters. However, the serious concerns are being raised from people of Egypt. Due to this traditional practice, more than 96percent of couples get divorced. Certain people believe in circumcision but certain people do not see the point in this practice. Now in Egypt, this particular traditional belief has separated people into two different groups. One is supporters of female circumcision and the other is against the practice.
Cultural differences cannot be easily comprehended and for me also, this female circumcision of Egyptian is certainly not easy to understand. The fact that women in Saudi Arabia cannot drive, cannot vote, and cannot even hold jobs made me shock and perceive a huge cultural difference. Though parents circumcise their girls in order to make them calm and not occupying in sexual activities, innocent girls are being tortured and many of them die because it¡¯s not properly done.
My prediction to this event is that Egypt will be divided into two different groups where people¡¯s thoughts go against one another. It is obvious that the government is on the side of against the circumcision but still, a lot of people believe that female circumcision must take place within the girls. Though I cannot be sure which side is going to be superior, however, I can be sure of one certain thing; it is that in order to abolish this old African cultural belief, a lot of time, more than we can imagine will be needed.
My questions on this event are: 1. Why is it relevant for the girls to be circumcised? Because anyways they will be engaged in sexual activities in anyhow and how does the circumcision make any difference? 2. If more than 96 percent of the couples get divorced due to the practice, why do parents force their girls to get circumcision? 3. Wouldn¡¯t the girls blame their parents when they grow up? 4. What can be done to stop the female circumcision? And why doesn¡¯t the government make a law to forbid this barbaric act?
-notes on further research relating to the event According to my further research relating to the event, the female circumcision takes place not only in Egypt but also in Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Eritrea, Ghana, Guinea, Indonesia, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda etc. And female circumcision is not being strictly forbidden for most of the countries. But in Guinea, it is practically illegal to circumcise women.
I learned from this event that still in 21st century, women¡¯s rights are not fully being accepted yet in certain parts of the world. I also felt that tradition, culture can affect on nations profoundly though I think it is not good for them to rely too much on their cultures. I believe in Buddhism and my entire family members are Buddhist because Buddhsim is our culture and tradition. However, I am not crazy about it because in my opinion, tradition is something you can rely on when you have difficulties; it is like your hidden soul and identity. But I realized that many developing nations take their cultures too seriously, thus I came to know that traditions or cultures play essential roles in nations' development
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Post by sujata on Sept 23, 2007 14:44:36 GMT 5.5
The idea of male circumcision, I've heard before, and understand because it is beneficial to men. But female circumcision sounds bizarre! It probably sounds worse to me, because the culture and family i have been brought up in, I've never ever heard about female circumcision and have never been considered different compared to the boys around me. I've always been treated as equal, and never felt that any thing that gives me pleasure would be taken away from me.
In Egypt, they circumcise their girls, because it is their culture, and that's the way it has been for them for generations. I understand that they do it because they are very conservative with their women, and it prevents women from all their temptations. But this is a choice to be made by the girls, and not their parents of grandparents. Just because 96% of Egypt's women are circumcised today, it doesn't mean that in the future they have to keep their rate at 96%, but should try to lower it because female circumcision is insane.
They circumcise their girls at a very early age, which does mean it will affect them less, and they will forget about it, but that is taking a very important female organ away from them. They should be given the choice. They should be asked whether they want to follow their ancient culture and be circumcised or live in the modern world. This obviously means the circumcision will take place later, but at least they have a choice and don't lose that natural right or pleasure they have just to agree with ancient culture.
The culture of a nation plays a big role in it's development. This is affecting the development of Egypt for sure. From my knowledge of this event, it takes places in many North African countries. It is a conservative culture, but they need to consider their development. This culture is holding back development, since they are doing things that were done in probably the 1800's.
It is upsetting to read this article, since a girl died due to circumcision. This is proof to us that circumcision can kill girls, and not only this girl died but many others are probably dying of it too. After so much proof-- the death of girls, the pain they go through, the pleasure they lose and so many other things, it only upsets me that people still do this. In the world we live in today, it's just sad what is happening and things need to be done with deal with it.
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Post by miriam on Sept 23, 2007 14:45:09 GMT 5.5
Female Mutilation
Basically what this article states are facts about ‘female genital mutilation’, or circumcision ‘as supporters call it’, in Egypt and the recent development concerning this topic. ‘For centuries Egyptian girls, usually between the ages of 7 and 13, have been taken to have the procedure done’ as it is ‘considered necessary’ ‘to preserve chastity and honour.’
Just recently there was an outbreak of outrage when the government shut down a clinic (which was practically unheard of) where a thirteen year old girl had died after she was brought there to have the operation done, but what shocked me was that the death of the girl ‘was not the source of the outrage’. People who lived in the same village made clear that they ‘support circumcision’ and that the government ‘will not stop’ them. Uniting ‘an unlikely alliance of government forces, official religious leaders and street-level activists’ is a ‘nationwide campaign to stop the practise’ which has turned into ‘one of the most powerful social movements in Egypt in decades’.
Egypt is a religious country and therefore it surprised me a lot to find out that an Imam of the village where the girl had died said that ‘… Ali Gomaa … is criticizing the practise of our fathers and forefathers’ when he should be following the word of ‘Egypt’s grand mufti’ (Ali Gomaa). If the grand mufti declares female circumcision haram (forbidden) it should be enough for the practice to stop.
Personally I believe that the way the people against this practise are trying to stop it is not the best and most efficient way of doing it. ‘Calling the practise barbaric’ and sounding ‘like out-of-touch urban intellectuals’ would not convince people to change their opinion on a practice that has been a important tradition for the Egyptian Muslims over many generations. Marie Assaad, an 84 year old activist ‘who has been fighting against genital cutting since the 1950s’ has this problem and started to recruit ‘Islamic scholars’ to give people an better understanding about how unnecessary and harmful female circumcision really is.
I am sure that most families (and it is not just the male members of the families that support circumcision) have the best interest of their daughters in mind as they believe that since ‘it was done to’ their ‘mothers and grandmothers, and they are fine’ it is the right thing to do for the daughter and the family honour.
The entire mind set of the society, where circumcision is still supported to some extend, has got to be changed. Newspaper articles like the one covering the death of two young girls who died after the operation rise awareness. Television shows were made to educate the people about the harmful effect of the procedure. Prominent figures like Suzanne Mubarak (wife of the president Hosni Mubarak) or Mrs. Khattab (head of the ‘National Council for Childhood and Motherhood’) speak up.
All this is necessary and will eventually result in the practise being abolished. However this will take time and consequently many more girls will endure what Ms. Ibrahim had to when she was 11 years old if something isn’t done fast. Ms. Ibrahim was 11 years old when her parents told her that she was going for a blood test when really she was brought to a relative (who was a doctor) to have the procedure done.
Female circumcision is illegal.
The law has to be executed. Anybody who practises circumcision, or allows it to happen has got to be prosecuted and punished. It is a crime and it has to be treated as such.
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Post by arpitav on Sept 23, 2007 16:00:10 GMT 5.5
The women of these countries still don’t have a say on the issues of society. They can’t fight for their beliefs or social problems. One of these many problems is female circumcision.
Female circumcision has been present in Egyptian culture for centuries. It was very surprising and extremely disturbing that 96% of the women in Egypt have been circumcised. They don’t complain because they say that it’s a part of Islamic culture. The people in Egypt have made it a way of life and they would like their children and grandchildren to have it done. They think that it is automatically the best thing for that child. They don’t think about how the child is feeling or will be feeling. This is completely unjust to those children.
Do you actually think these children want to have it done? Because of the modern changes of the world, many women have taken a stand against these social problems. This has pushed other women to follow.
Female circumcision is one of the major problems our world faces today. I still don’t understand why and how female circumcision came into play or how it stayed in Egyptian culture. Whatever, the bottom line is that it was a horrible idea. I don’t think that female circumcision will ever be completely gone, but I do think that sometime in the next 10 years it will decrease significantly.
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Post by eunjucho on Sept 23, 2007 17:01:30 GMT 5.5
This current event is about Egypt and their culture. People in Egypt circumcise their daughters when they are about seven to thirteen years old. This is what Egyptians did and still do. According to this article, about 96 percent of Egyptian women are circumcised nationwide. Circumcision is a big issue in Egypt now and a lot of people either support it or don¡¯t, after a horrible incident. That incident is about a girl who was having a circumcision operation. The girl died during this process. This might have happened to other girls, too. The opponents tell people not to circumcise their daughters because it is damaging and risky. There are a lot of campaigns, plays, news or speeches going on in Egypt to stop people from circumcision. Most of Egyptians still support circumcision which is surprising. People think it is taking away their culture to ban it and people think it is honor to circumcise their kids. Also, there are people who would still do this even if the country bans the circumcision.
I think circumcision is a bad idea and I don¡¯t support circumcision because it is not really necessary for the girls. Also, since I am not an Egyptian woman, it is hard to understand why they do it. It is like taking away their rights. I think some even force their kids for the circumcision operation. Well, if people really want their daughters to be circumcised, I think they should at least ask whether these children want it or not. Of course, it is hard to bring this topic up and talk about it but forcing the kids and lying to them isn¡¯t a very good idea. Everyone wants their kids to be happy and this is not the only way to make their children happy. But I don¡¯t blame Egyptians for this because it is their culture. I think it is all about westernization because for most of the people in Egypt, not circumcising the girls is a new idea. In fact, it is westernized idea. So for the supporters, they don¡¯t like the idea because it is western and many Islam countries want to keep their culture, which isn¡¯t bad but not great either.
In the future, hopefully, people wouldn¡¯t circumcise the girls. Well, but I think this might lead to chaos and small fights between the supporters and the opponents. Apparently, a lot of people even shout and tell the others they would still do the procedure. Think what will happen if the country bans it and it becomes illegal. The supporter might even make a terror group saying that the people are trying to destroy their cultures. Anyways, there are few questions I have for this current event. Why didn¡¯t they act before? If they started to tell people it was a bad idea, by now, no parents would circumcise the daughters. My second question how would they able to stop people from circumcising the girls? I don¡¯t think campaigning and forcing people would work really well. I hope people find a really good way to solve this problem.
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Post by sofiekh on Sept 23, 2007 18:15:45 GMT 5.5
Okay, first of all I think that circumcision on girls is barbaric and disgusting. Many girls are dieing from it and some have it bad for the rest of their lives. Like in the current event it says that one girl was tricked to it and after she couldn’t walk and she is still dealing with that memory. Ms. Assad had some very good points and if I was a girl or woman in Egypt I will think twice before I would circumcise my children. Actually I had never heard about girl circumcision, I had only heard about boy circumcision, so it was overwhelming for me to hear about all the girls and women in Egypt who are being circumcised. That’s why I think it was a good current event, because it shows how much Egypt has to do to be a developed country. Circumcision is not only happening in Egypt, it is also taking place in Asia and South America. A 13 year old girl in a little community, Egypt died after she got a circumcision in a local hospital. The government decided to close the hospital which caused a lot of protests from the local community. All do there have been ordered an end to the practice since 1996 by the government and some churches, it is still being practices all over Egypt. In Egypt there is a strong movement against the practice and recently a group of prominent women has joined in protesting against the circumcision of girls. However, most of the women in Egypt are still accepting the practice and they will do it on their daughters too. In Egypt there is 96% of the women who are circumcised. -Why don’t we think it is barbaric and disgusting when a boy gets circumcised? The Jews is circumcising boys, but it is far from as barbaric as circumcision the girls. The Jews do it as a ritual as a part of the boy’s entrance to adulthood. In some extreme countries like egypt and Saudi Arabia the circumcision of girls is an old tradition founded in a strong patriarchal society. If Egypt and other extreme countries do not stop the practice of circumcising girls they will isolate them selves more and more from the international society and it will affect their ability to develop.
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Post by hawklim on Sept 23, 2007 21:26:56 GMT 5.5
The current event made me realize there are still some psychos who believes in cutting off people¡¯s body part is holy thing so do. Well, cannibalism around the world has disappeared long time ago especially in Africa and China and Rumania. In China, there were people who ate another people because of their crazy religion. In Rumania, the country of vampires, there were many rumors that people drank other¡¯s blood or took a bath with other¡¯s blood to get back their beauty or their youthfulness. In Africa, there were people ate each other to survive.
What the current event is affecting Egypt with women¡¯s right is much cruel than what I said up there because cannibalism has disappeared except some horrible murders. The women¡¯s rights have been developed past 200years just like a speed of the sound. To give ability to vote, to give ability to have a job, and some sports or equality as men in everything they wanted. However, in Egypt, because of their religion, there are women who losing their life and their right to succeed in this world. There are no freedom unless they born into the boys who do not need any circumcision. The way people in Egypt treating girls are not different in other country. However, the way they circumcise women is much cruel than any other country¡¯s rule or religion¡¯s rule. They are being much cruel more than just killing. Removing the part, that is important. This also made many women die because of pain and shock.
Egypt¡¯s health ministry trying to stop women circumcision, but I don¡¯t think they are really trying hard because if they tried hard enough like East Indian Company which wanted to sell their goods everywhere, they could arrest every people who cheered up for the women circumcision. I think women all around the world will make some kind of a group to stop women circumcision if they see this news.
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Post by meehye on Sept 23, 2007 21:58:42 GMT 5.5
This current event is about female genital mutilation. And this happened in Egypt Women, they removed their clitoris. When they become 13 years old, their parents brought to a doctor and they removed their clitoris. It called circumcision or female genital mutilation. The girl died because of that operation. So government close the clinic. But the women cannot accept what government doing. They said that they will support their traditional. Moreover, when they do their circumcision, they do not go to only a doctor. They go sometimes a barber or whoever else in the village would do it. Virtually, government, non government organizations, religious leaders and anthropologist disagree with this happening and fighting against women. And Egypt men do not want marry who has done that circumcision and many women divorce the reason is they did their circumcision. Even though, women want support resolutely their traditional. And one woman, when she was 13, her parents said to her that she would go to blood test. The doctor put her sleep after that when she woke up she could not walk. Now, she had bad memory about that so she became a volunteer of female genital mutilation. She announced parents who have young about circumcision. And she told that if she have young daughter she never do that. It makes economic problem. If the men dose not wants to marry with those women it will be big problem in Egypt, because most of women did circumcision. Women want to do their circumcision but men do not want to marry that people. Then, maybe their population goes down. Since, many people divorce or do not marry then how can people have their baby? So maybe their population decrease and they will have only old people. Then their employments also decreases, then products also decrease. Everything is going down so it will be lots of problems. Moreover, it can be huge fighting between government and women who want to support their circumcision. Then it can be society problems. Therefore, they will have economic and society problem in Egypt because of this circumcision. I think we can not do anything about that because it is their traditional. So they just follow their rules. Like what we follow our rules. The government try to stop doing that. But I think, it never works because it is their choice and their right. Maybe other country or other people think it is really disgusting. Of course some people really hate their traditional and they do not want to do it. And some of people had really bad memory on their head and they never forget their memory. However, their parents make, they do that. Then it have problem. If possible, they make some rule. For example, they can do who really want to do. But they have to think about their future, I mean the marriage. Men do not like women, who did their circumcision. People who really do not want to do then they do not have to do it. Even, parents cannot compel to their daughter because that is their choice and their right. Like what I read article, they will have bad memory forever. I think, that will be batter. I heard about India also is going this happening. So that will be problem like Egypt. So this issue also we have to think about it. I hope, India dose not accept this traditional circumcision.
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Post by pyeonchan on Sept 24, 2007 0:34:01 GMT 5.5
Generally, the succession of traditions and practices of the society is one that the younger generation should keep. However, these customs which need to be succeeded through the generations should be helpful and meaningful to the people. The old customs of Egypt, circumcision of young girls are not in the range of helpful customs.
The death of girl shows how this practice is dangerous and useless. The practice which made the girls die should be stopped. Even though the custom exists in tiny part of the world, the people should fix it for the girls who will suffer from this barbaric custom. The continuous circumcisions over the Egyptian girls should be regarded as the part of the infringement on personal rights, though the people who support this custom do not agree with me. Without asking one¡¯s mind, however, the procedures should stop. What if the girls have the complaints after growing? Does the surgery make the girls satisfy? The wrong choice by the adults remains the bad memory for the girl, and it will torment her during her entire life.
Frankly speaking, nobody has the right to interfere the other¡¯s life. Because the person who is going to be circumcised is that girl, so she should decide her own action, and we need to respect that decision. Due to the lack of power and idea to think and decide, most girls in Egypt maybe follow what their parents force them do. Clearly, the dignity of human cannot be disturbed by any other people including their parents, and the girls should determine whether she would circumcise or not after growing up. Perhaps the supporters who are mainly organized by the old people, uncircumcised girl must be unfamiliar. Nevertheless, something unfamiliar does not mean something wrong.
To conclude, we should stop circumcising the girls in Egypt succeeding this barbaric practice. I cannot immagine the desentment of women on this issue. For the protection of dignity of human, the supporters of the old and weird practice think of the girls who will suffer from it. The Egyptian government also should be strict on this issue and strongly ban the surgery over the country. The Egyptians need to recognize the importance of stopping this custom as well.
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Post by jihyeyun on Sept 24, 2007 8:16:18 GMT 5.5
Developing Nations ?Current Event Sept. 22, 2007 (St) Female Circumcision and Genital Mutilation in Egypt: In Egypt there is a big conflict between the government and the people do not agree the old custom and people following the old custom which is female genital mutilation. This old custom is harmful and meaningless. Especially in the rural areas, are strongly against the government because the government banned this custom. The government, in fact, shut the clinic where the circumcision is held. There are a lot of campaigns and TV programs discouraging people getting or doing the circumcision. The government agencies, the national health and social policies, are putting a lot of effort into removing this old tradition. This tradition, in my opinion, is a set back for Egypt from moving forward and developing. This custom also causes lots of health problems because people got infected easily and contract many diseases and even die.
Traditions are the important to every country, however, female circumcision, removing a woman’s clitoris. It is wrong belief ‘it makes girls calm and beautiful?is totally nonsense. In addition, there is a idea that circumcision prevents homosexuality. These misconceptions in Egyptians?mind should be corrected. I think this custom is also about inequity between men and women. Conservation of tradition is the way of the country having their own color and distinction from other countries which is very rich culture. Yet, tradition which makes people suffer and hinder the country’s development should be removed. The women?freedom and rights give women opportunity to have a career, to contribute more to the country.
To develop the country, in my point of view, women?rights is the very important ideal that countries have to learn from developed countries. The solution for this issue of tradition will be very difficult to address and also will take a really long time to pull out by the roots as it is part of people’s belief. This tradition came from the Egyptian ancestors and people are following from long time ago. Thus they may feel this custom is what their mother and grandmother had and it is a natural thing to do. People need to really go into those areas and educate people about how this old tradition is wrong and can bring negative effects to themselves as also to society as a whole. If Egypt gets over the old traditional problem, the country will develop rapidly with women’s rights intact. Other countries should know about these problems and help.
I strongly recommend the book, ‘desert flower?by Waris Dirie; this book shows that how the female genital mutilation destroys woman’s life and gave pain( especially in Chapter 17) There are some quotations that Wraris said: “Having surgery to open the crude scars of my genitals so that I could urinate properly? “My health problems I’ve coped with since my circumcision also plague millions of girls and women through out the world because of a ritual of ignorance, most of women in the continent of Africa live their life in pain? “somebody must speak out for the little girl which no voice.?Once top model described what she had went through genital mutilation when she was five in Sudan and she became a UN special Ambassador. She was fighting, still using hr beauty and courage to take what she has learned to try and put things right. And I want to ask people who follow the old tradition, why women still stick to that tradition even though they are suffering and living in pain.
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Post by sparsh on Sept 24, 2007 18:07:59 GMT 5.5
First of all this article is very disturbing and weird to read. I'm being immature or anything but seriously it is pretty disturbing.
In my opinion, what they are doing now is very good, not the circumcision of girls. Trying to stop this procedure. It is very good and may god bring more people in the world like ms assad. I think the Egyptians should listen to the reason they are doing this and listen. Its good that slowly people are joining the move for ban of this dirty and sicking procedure. I agree it is their culture but little girls are dieing because of this and that is just sad and sickening that it still does not affect some people. The part that shocked me the most was the ending paragraph about the parents telling their daughter if she joins the campagin they will kill her. Now thats just like inhuman stop those parents . Yeah sure ive heard of male cirumcision before it happens alot in the US. That actually does not kill the boy like this and happens when they are new borns not when they are 7 to 13 years old thats just evil.
This article is about the circumcision of girls. Egyptians have done this for centuries for girls from ages 7 to 13. It is cutting the clitoris of a female so they cant enjoy sex. Approximately 96% of the Egypt's female population is circumcised . But now finally people are opposing to this and trying to ban this procedure. Th government is on the side of the people who want to ban it and is closing clinics and other places that does this procedure. News papers, TV's etc. all are encouraging the people not to circumcise their daughters. A little girl died because of this maybe even more did who we did not here of. Ms. Assad a woman in her 80's is trying to stop this with all the power she has and i am with her.
I think in the future it will stop and less female Egyptians will die. Not just Egyptians all countries that do this should and i think will be stopped and girls will be safe. The government has realized this is wrong and should be stopped and I know they will stop it and make their countries girls safe again.
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Post by rikke on Sept 25, 2007 16:14:21 GMT 5.5
Final..
My opinion to this current event is that I think it was good that some of them decided to stop it, and I think what the woman Ms. Assaad did was really good, and I think she was on the best side. I don’t get why some of the woman can stand for there right, and why the men had so much control over the woman, and why circumcision was and are a culture thing and tradition, but I think it is stupid, and it shouldn’t be like that, and the woman shouldn’t think that it’s normal because they got use to it, so I think they should listen to Ms. Assaad, because she has something really important to day to the woman, and of course I went down, more people listened to the government, but still there are many I believe there still does it. And on the first page of the current event, the tells us that girls between 7- 13 get it done, and they get it done by sometimes a doctor, other times by a barbar, and other times even from whoever there are in the village there wanted to do it, so it’s not even a doctor all the time, there kind off know how to do it, that’s even worst.
A brief summery of this event is, it starts with it tells that a 13 year old girl died after a doctor cut her clitoris, and afterwards they say the are closing it down, and then a man from the other side of the street says that they will support circumcision. The government now tries to stop it, because they sees that it is wrong, and that it isn’t good for the woman, so the government talks with the health minister, and also the highest religious office. And in the event the try to stop it, and tells some different situations, and they also tells that it change bit by bit, and more and more listen to them, and stop it for the next generation, that is basically it about this event, but it’s not a really nice topic because it is hard for them, and a problem if you look at the women side, some of them just didn’t want to admit it, but the government, and the other people help them to stop it, or stop some of it.
It is not only in Egypt this happened, it is many places in the world, but specially in Asia, and it is a Muslim tradition, so it is not only Egypt there have that problem, there are many there have it in Asia, maybe some more than others, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is not good for there health either, and I think it’s a sad situation specially for the woman, I’m sure many of the men doesn’t care.
Questions Why didn’t the woman believe in them self? Why didn’t they give there own right? Why did they let the men take over? That is not how women should be, women should be strong. Will these stop all the Muslim’s from doing it? Will was this such a big tradition in the culture?
What there will happened next I think and hope for the woman, that they will think more about it, and stand again for the men, and not let them control everything, even though it is better now, but not let the men send the girls to the doctor, or anything like that to let them cut of the clitoris, I hope that will not happened. And hopefully it will help the women a lot, because they are the once there care, and should care. Many of the men don’t care at all, like they should, so I hope they will stop it more than they already have done.
To connect another country with it, it could be India, but it’s not as many as there, but still some places, and some families does it her also.
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